NaFar says No... again

   We started a new lunch game, this one with custom built decks.  Na'Far Diplomacy and Destiny (myself), Centauri Imperialism War Deck with Londo, Minbari Warrior Caste, Psi Corps (shudders), Minbari Vorlon Diplomacy were the players.  The two Minbari players are old hands (and need faster decks, IMO) and Psi Corps player a veteran card game player and already the guy to watch, and the Londo deck ran by two on the new players as a team (I helped build this deck, in all humility, its good and doesn't need anything other than raw Centauri power to win).

    We used a rather standard fare house rule for us: game goes to 30 power instead of 20.  Decks must be 60 cards, cannot exceed 100.  Everyone insisted they were ready for a full on deck of mine and so I let my deck run.  This is a game I should win, but since we have 5 players we agree that the game will go on and play for second place too, the winning player dropping out, but with States and Global effects still in play.  

  So, giddy up, NaFar shuts down everyone's tensions, dropping most to 1 by end game, quickly has 20+ power and uses destiny mark upgrades from aftermaths and to give NaFar stats in the teens in Diplomacy and Intrigue, 8 point damage reduction, and 8 points of automatic opposition to all conflicts.  By himself he will end most conflicts before they start, denying influence gains probably half the time they are drid

  With media cards and strong/cheap defensive fleets, there's not much that scares me and I soon drop out at 30 power.  However the fight for second was quite interesting.  The Centauri deck starts burning through cards, drawing four free cards a turn, and building a military that would have crushed the Narn, had we not already won and withdrawn.  Neron powers up slow and runs second fiddle to the Humans and Religious caste.  Psi Corp runs well, but too conservative, and the Minbari deck, right at 100 cards, is too cumbersome when the wrong cards keep coming up and just fizzles.  In the end, they agree to play until someone runs out of cards and then call it.  Victory Centauri, but I should point out that if they played RAW, the Psi Corps player, with more cards and a recycling conflict would have eventually won, and the Vorlon deck could have got second with an agenda that counts Vorlon-Shadow influence as power (so in this game an additional 20 some... though not until NaFar had already exitted stage right).

  All in all a good game.  The newer players got to see their decks run, and the Centauri players decided to build their own decks as the Psi Corps player is working on a Non-aligned deck on the side.  Should be interesting next game.  Na'Far will take a break.  Maybe I'll bring out my (crusade free) G'Kar Defense in Depth deck.  Its not ran around unchained for awhile.  

Back in the Saddle... or Meddling with Others

On a side note: shouldn't either "with" and "others" be capitalized, or neither?  There's not a proper noun "Others" involved here... okay, sorry, moving on.  I've tried to manipulate, cajole, and guide our little club into a new Babylon 5 CCG direction, and (with two of the return players chomping at the bit to go) we've finally assembled a new lunch crew.  I strongly encourage you, if starting a new persistent game, to find a place where the game can be left alone, declare who's playing what at the onset, and then go from there.

We started this first game playing just starter decks (I looked them up and built them as sold).  I think we're far enough in that we'll just stop the game (no one wins) and let everyone break out their custom built decks.  It looks like our new group with be me and another student running Narn, our 2 Minbari players from last year (yay!), a returning player now taking up the Earth/PsiCorps mantle, a non-aligned new player (I think he'll be quite good, already deck building in his free time), and another new Centauri player (Chaotic Neutral, but that works well with either Refa or Londo, so all good).

Here's our table at the start, but many of us are in the teens (yes I know we're using the wrong Refa and Neroon) and the mechanics are well taught.  I'm really thinking about going out and buying some plywood to make a bigger table this year... just so we can have 6 of us going with room to play.

If I have any concern, its the lack of aggression.  Yes, so a Narn player would always say, but its more than just throwing fleets out there.  They need to be willing to hurt each other a bit, work with each other a bit, get the game going.  Right now all the players are kinda just building on their own.  We need fleets striking, intrigue developing, diplomacy negotiating, etc.  Hopefully those with the lower influence this game decide to get things going in a big way next game.

Narn, Na'Far is Your Friend Deck, and the end of the Lunch Game #2

Well Na'Far won.  He weathered a Gunboat Diplomacy (Leveled the Playing Field), and took an influence hit the following round from an intrigue conflict, but pushed a Power Politics through (with Homeworld, netted a +2) which put him to 20, and an earlier trade pact, gave 21... game over, standard Narn victory.  

I've decided that I'll sit out the next lunch game and just help with rules disputes and mechanics... more fun to what it sometimes anyway.

If you're looking for Narn cards on ebay, CLICK HERE

Not that it won anything big: but here's the deck

Staring Hand:

Na'Far

Councilor Na'Far

Euphrates Treaty

Nowhere to Hide

Characters:

Mary Ann Cramer

Sh'Sak

Ta'Lon

G'Sten

Na'Toth

G'Drog

Narn Agitator x3

Narn Aide x2

General Na'Tok

Du'Nar

G'Obel

Narn Captain

Ja'Doc

Na'Mel

Kha'Mak

Groups:

ISN

Narn Rabble

Aftermath:

Pariah

Glory x3

When Duty Calls x3

Fleets:

Colonial Fleet x2

Picket Fleet x3

Homeworld x2

Support Fleet x2

Security Fleet 

Locations:

Narn Homeworld

Quadrant 14

Events:

Universe Today Feature x3

Level the Playing Field x2

Trade Windfall x3

Wisdom of G'Quan

Spirit of Cooperation

Enhancements:

Attache'

Man for All Seasons

Pride of the Kha'Ri

Book of G'Quan

Preeminence

Conflicts:

Alliance

Trade Pact x2

Diplomatic Intrusion

Officer Exchange

Affirmation of Peace

Affirmation of Power

Strange Bedfellows

Agendas:

Power Politics x2

The Path to Peace x2

Contingencies:

Under Our Protection

Revenge is Sweet

Power in Consensus

Bluff

Further Gains

Its not sprinter lean or fast, but its NFL fullback trim and thundering.  Is it better than Cyborg G'Kar?  No.  Can it win in a Shadow War? Maybe.  Is it fun and competitive in a 4+ player game?  Yes.  Is it cheesey and makes me feel guilty if I win?  No.  I hopefully can get it in a weekend game (or the Neroon deck... oh the honorable pain it can reap... maybe I'll post that deck next).

B5 CCG Lunch Game #2, Third AAR... what are the stat's on the Warleader's Fleet again?!

A few more excellent rounds in our lunch game.  I finally put an ultimatium on the table... "get out enough diplomacy to stop Power Politics, or I win".  They took me seriously after I rammed a Power Politics through and tapped the Narn Homeworld for +3 influence.  Combine that with Councilor Na'Far's +2 power from having tension 1 with Humans and Minbari, and I'm sitting at 17 power... one more round like that and I would have won.  So now Warleaders, Ministry of Peace workers, and Centauri notables suddenly found sponsorship.  Meanwhile on only 10 influence, the Centauri have developed a solid cast, Warleader Shakiri and his fleet are flat out impressive and Neroon is spending 16 influence a turn (an impressive and powerful 2nd place showing for the new guy), Psi Corps is reeling from a Centauri Gunboat diplomacy (and needs to get some more cards in play soon... locations and telepath groups... where are you?).

I did build all three of these decks, so its interesting to see them in play.  However, Bester just needs to be aggressive, so its a poor pairing with its player.  Neroon is the deck I wanted to really see do well, and it is (yippee!), so there's some vindication there.

Refa is a little frustrated, as Sheridan has a vehicle to get the Combined Fleets into play and the Warleader's Fleet all look very OP to him.  He's looking at his thought-to-be a juggernaut Centauri conquest deck, and lamenting the lack of fleets over military 10 (what until he see's the Grey Council Fleet).  I'm trying to explain to him that a War deck doesn't need/want the big fleets, as you aren't running Border Raid or the like anymore.  You want many small fleets, that way enemy fleet attacks are blunted by the mechanics of the game and with a salvage yard, you can recycle those military 5 multiple fleets all day.  Not to mention, with the Centauri ability to make enhancements global, those +1 Modern Refits, and Establish Bases, and Lifepods, become even greater force multipliers on weaker/cheaper fleets... but he's not seeing it and instead is trying to build a Gather the Rebels Shadow deck... sigh... time to break out the old pure Narn War deck and show the kid how it's done.  Sad thing is, the Centauri are actually better at it too.  Oh well

As for my peace loving Narns: I need to get a few more fleets out, just as a deterrent for Minbari military conflicts (I have them at tensions 1, and once someone figures out the ruining that will help someone else win the game, I'm in trouble).  Also worrisome, I don't have any conflicts in my hand. I know that I have about 15 in the deck, but until I have them, I only have Power Politics to build with and that shouldn't be an option anymore (though I could wait until the Humans and Centauri all place conflicts and then activate one myself... if nothing else it's paying 9 influence to keep them from using characters as they want).  I also played a rather pointless card, Thenta Makur... I've got everyone's tensions at 2 or below, and I think I can hold them there for quite awhile.  Who am I going to be able to attack with all those new-found strife marks?

  

In other news:

I just got 4000 more plastic sleeves (for under $20, I might add, name brand ones too), so I can finally get the entire collection protected.


I did find this promising Dilgar War Fanfic (disclaimer: I've not read it yet... so caveat emptor), I hope it proves to be interesting.

Also, while I use Vorlon Space and it's Card Finder for all my card gallery needs, I also found this   Russian B5 CCG gallery.  Looks like an excellent backup.

Home Faction Ambassador B5 CCG Lunch Game #2, second AAR

A little progress on our lunch game, looks like the Neroon deck has some real potential.  We're kinda playing open hands here, so they've all seen mine and I've seen theirs.  Almost all the fun Minbari warrior caste character/fleet combos are already in Neroon's hand and now its just growing his influence enough to get them in... we'll have to see today if he can.

In other decks, Refa's frustrated as this is a war deck of 80 some cards, 20 of which are fleets, none of which are in his hand.  Meanwhile he's pumping Ragesh III to bring in a 1st-3rd fleet early and then I assume Border Raid or the like with that (we Narn aren't worried).

Bester is slowly getting things out, but I really hope he'll be aggressive.  You can't play Psi Corps and play nice (well, he can be nice to someone, but he needs to pick on someone too).  Its a race right now between him and Sheridan to get Earth out and get some of the limited fleets too, but I'm trying to drill into the Bester that a few Psi Corps locations, a couple high power telepaths, and Military Telepaths are all he needs to stay competitive in military conflicts and that's good enough.

Sheridan is a pure B5/Diplo deck.  I think it will do well in this meta rather than the Shadow War/Military heavy games we've had in the past.  He needs to focus on things other than B5 influence and just grow his own power pool.  Right now, I could Power Politics and make them all tap out, but nothing gained (other than making them give +2 influence to someone other than me), but once Sheridan and the Senators are all up in running, that will change.  Hopefully he and the other players will get that working together to stop Power Politics is a must right now.

Na'Far is sitting pretty.  He's contingency protected, will soon have 2 strife marks on him, and is sitting at a 10 diplomacy right now.  I might try and ram through one more Power Politics conflict but I think almost all the homeworlds will be in soon and this might be a pretty quick game for everyone but Refa.  Right now he's got the biggest challenge besides Bester.  They both need two turns to make most of their influence, where as Neroon and Na'Far can easily make 2-4 every turn.  However there are some Alliance cards floating around and I'm going to encourage them to not target me... that should elevate the others quickly, but this one's going to be a race to 20 not a Major Victory (sorry Bester and Refa)... unless something unexpected happens, and just like in the show, it often does.

In other news:

The Screenings Continue

The Mrs and I are still watching the season 1 and we've just finished the first disc and started the second.  All and all, I think she's getting it (not understanding it (which of course she is), I mean "getting it", as in seeing what redeemable qualities the series had and why people liked it).

Episode 4: Lumbering Plot device and Ducky betrays the Doc

Me:I like the look into the short-sighted and aggressive policies of EarthGov.  Much like when the show aired, the current distrust of politicians makes this even more relevant. 

Mrs: I think the lack of well done parallel plot lines in this episode made it less interesting for her.  I don't want to say that this is a throw away episode, but as much I as remember liking it the first time through, this might be one to skip if you're trying to speed a new view through the first season... just mention ISN and move on

Episode 5: Londo's Party and G'Kar's Peril

Me: Good ole Parliament of Dreams, might be one of, if not my favorite episode of Season 1.  G'Kar is overacted, and I'm glad that he's toned down in theatrics but deepened as a character later.  We get to meet Na'Toth (one of those characters that I wish we saw more of, but since actress was allergic to Narn makeup, that happens).

Mrs:  Found G'Kar a bit too much of a ham... and, sadly, he was.  However, I think Londo and Sinclair are growing on her... but oddly enough, not Delenn (given what's coming, too bad on all accounts, I'm curious to see what she thinks of the season 2/3 changes).  All in all, a solid episode for her.

Episode 6: Bester Arrives and Ironheart

Mr:  Good ole Bester, we meet the Psi Corps, finally, and see just how controlling it is.

Mrs:  I knew this wouldn't be a strong favorite for her... the over acting, psi powers in general, and the suspension of belief needed on this one was going to make it weak.  She's not a scifi person, so things like psychics in the scifi sense, just aren't a given for her... I hope this doesn't make her like season 5 even less than most people do.

All in all, its growing on her.  I'm curious to see if she's emotionally invested enough in the characters to feel the betrayal and inner conflict of the next two seasons... I think she just might.  She did mention the other day that she was enjoying the series and found it entertaining... if she can say that on season one, that's a pretty good sign for me.

BTW, here's an Excellent episode guide for those looking

Homeworld Factions abound in Babylon 5 CCG lunch game #2

We launched another lunch game this week, 5 players this time... and only one has a Babylon 5 vote. The decks were all picked independent of the others, yet we have no Shadows, no Vorlons (I think), and only 1 B5 ambassador and none of the original 4.

The decks go as follows (starting in the top left, clockwise): Sinclair (4 card), Bester, Na'Far (me), Refa, and Neroon.  We're all still in the process of building, but I had the Euphrates Treaty in my starting hand along with Council Na'Far and Nothing to Hide (if Refa wants to run up tensions to get to war, it will at least hurt a bit), so right now I have a Diplomacy 9, DR 3 ambassador.  The Humans and Neroon are at influence 7, Refa is at 5, I'm at 6 (I took a turn off to get Na'Toth in... though we are unsure whether Na'Toth is considered Na'Far's ambassador right now or not.  Either way, I'd have put her in (only character I've drawn and I need another Inner Circle sponsor).  Neroon's a first time player, but the rest have all played before.  I'll still give advice freely, and I know Refa will too, so they should do fine.

My Na'Far deck is the normal win via tension, but I'm already wishing I have a few more cards to keep tensions down (the extra power can't hurt, especially late game). We've already had a B5 vote, kinda funny, Sheridan played the card and then got to have the only vote... but I know Neroon and Na'Far both have the agendas that enable their right to vote.  No Shadow, Vorlons, Crusades, Non-aligned, or original ambassadors... should be interesting at least.

Babylon 5 CCG Game #2: End of the Lunch Game... new game coming

So yeah, I "won" a game... the two new players did well, but I think this game really shouldn't count.  I might need to go back and hone that Human deck some more (or maybe just rebuild it from scratch).  Feels like its can't ever be more than a strong supporting cast member.  I let the game go until the end of lunch and then played two planets and a contingency to close at a standard victory with 21 influence.  Londo's annoyed for sure (he wasn't playing a learning deck), but techno-mages did just fine keeping Refa, the Emperor, and Londo off my Inner Circle,

In other news, I'm only needing to log about 500 more Shadow cards from having all of my cards documented and organized... here's the system so far:

Also in trying to hunt down any other current B5 CCG players, if found this  Old RPG forum discussion on B5 CCG.  Pretty interesting, even if it was 7 years ago. 

Looks like we've got a game for Saturday for sure.  Non-aligned, Centauri, and myself.   I'll let them pick between Narn Power Politics, Techno-mage G'Kar, and Neroon Ranger deck... doesn't matter to me, the G'Kar deck is probably the weakest (just too slow), but I think they'll probably direct me toward the Ranger deck unless we have someone running the Minbari/Vorlon deck (and I hope we do) and maybe even someone running the Sheridan deck (I've already tweaked it to have a shot at putting President Sheridan in).

I'll get that AAR up as soon as the match happens... a few more games under our belts and I'll start posting deck builds for your viewing pleasure.

...a few extra turns and something of interest

  

We got a few more turns in on the lunch game:  Long story short, I'm a jerk.  I left one conflict uncontested and then dropped the above on it at the end of the turn... 21 opposition dropped with one card... lols.  The other card I generated support with Elizabeth Trent... after having Genius Loci hop into it, doing damage to everyone.  Tap a homeworld, and 19 influence.  Now they brought a bunch of stuff in, and I'm holding a planet (they don't follow the blog, don't tell them)... but if think I'm just going to build up fleets and try to hasten the Shadow War.  Unless it targets a card I hold, I'll probably even let them steal a little influence here and there.

As to the Saturday game, we ran out of time, but I feel confident that we'll have one this next Saturday.  Looks like three players for sure, maybe 5 if I'm lucky (I like the bigger games).

As a parting note, if you've not seen this, I recommend it highly for any B5 fans, unfortunately though some rough language, so its pulling gold out of slag... beware:

...and Londo makes his move

  A few more turns on the lunch game.  Supporting characters coming out for everyone, assistants finally show up (and homeworlds).  I'm Mr. Money bags, but I'm strongly encouraging the other players to start targeting me.  When we called it, everyone had just revealed their conflicts

  Delenn:  Supporting characters everywhere... from a cast of 6 to a cast of 4... He's feeling a little disheartened at the weakness of the supporting row, but I'm hoping that he can see them as cheap and expendable.  A fleet is now in play and Vorlon's march on with our first Final Destiny in play (let the recyling and growing Vorlon marks/influence being... good, I want the Shadow War sooner than later).

  Sheridan:  He and Londo are teaming up to try and push a Partnership for Peace through (against me).  This will give each of them an extra 8 influence to spend next turn (if it works).  That could really help them.  I'm contingencied against the loss of influence, so I'll make them earn it, but not attempt to stop it.  Sheridan got Ivanova in and improved (so that helps).  At this point, I think buying cards with the possible windfall here might be the best move.

  Londo:  Slowly building up his hand, if he pushes Prey on the Weak through, and he might, with his Homeworld in play, he can start the climb to a solid influence rating here.  His character pool is small, but they're pretty powerful and he's already got plans for what to do with influence gained from Partnership for Peace (basically 2 characters and a planet).  I'm not sure I can stop it if I wanted to, but I don't want to get too involved.  Refa is a nasty axe man for him right now.  I think in his mind he'll attack with him every other turn (healing on the off turns).  I like Londo's willingness to attack, most of the new players (not the learning ones, though this applies to them too) are gun shy in attacking, Londo is not, and that's good... playing conservatively does not work well in old B5,

  

  G'Kar:  I've got the cards to win, but I really want to see where this goes, and I'd like the Shadow War to start (gives the learning players more turns to learn the game, and then I've exposed them to the different victory sets).  Right now I've spent my Legacy Deck.  All its characters are out, all but one of its fleets, and its just enhancements and aftermaths until I recycle the conflicts through.  I know the Minbari deck has excellent abilities to strip off enhancements, so I'm going to try and play it careful (like wait until I have two of a card and then play one with the other as a back up).  Typically I try and convince all three of the other players to come at me once the Shadow War begins, so I'm trying to setup for being a bear for them to take down.  Its fun for them to work together to obliterate someone and its fun for me to see how resilient I can be.  My conflict is Hi-Tech Weapons, and I just want to win that and not lose Prey on the Weak.  It will be good for the game for all three of the other conflicts to go through, and I don't think I can stop them anyway without exposing cards that I'll need later in the game.

 We'll see if I can pull off the weekend game... it looks like it will happen soon.

 Until then, check out Vorlon Space for all your B5 CCG needs... this site really makes the game run these days.

Narn deck won't narn... and hello old friend

Yeah, no Narns in my Narn faction, just 5 Techno-mages and a Banker... so weird

A few more turns (3 or 4?) on the lunch game.  Predictably Londo the Gambler and G'kar the Techno-mage are going head to head.  Its kinda broke down into two games, Narn vs Centauri (the two veteran players) and Minbari vs Narn (learning player and veteran).  Unfortunately for the Human player (also learning) his cards just aren't coming up.

Londo: Got some of his heavy hitters in, Refa's up into the Inner Circle, and Emperor Turhan with his Imperial Telepaths are up and firing.  I tried to block his Hunter, Prey (which gives him an auto Intrigue 2 on all future conflicts), but stuff got real.  Galen and Genius Loci jumped in with both feet... Refa attacked them and Londo supported the conflict along with Turhan (thus all the damage tokens).  Arthur has been a big help to him getting cards.  With two cards that can generate intrigue conflicts as an action, this deck is always doing something every turn.

Delenn: Now with 11 power and 10 influence (benefited from a Narn Legacy Conflict), He's got a solid Inner Circle and good supporting cards, Vorlon influence is at 11 (I actually want the Shadow War, so I'm kinda helping subtly, much to Londo's dismay).

Sheridan:  Now an Extra Conflict John Sheridan (just need conflicts now), and with a captain and a won conflict successfully pushed through (at 11 influence), he's just sitting on every great late game, 12 cost, card you could want.  Hopefully the low cost quantity over quality cards that are everywhere in this deck start coming up soon.  He's got no more conflicts in his hand... just waiting on the right cards to come up!

G'Kar: Well what a weird set of 3/4 turns.  Played Faces in Stone on the first of the turns and was able to get Blaylock, Isabella (who got demoted last turn), and Genius Loci all in (and Genius Loci into the Inner Circle).  I pushed through two Well of Forevers (cheap, I know) and an Isabella's Quest to gain 2 more influence, along with another pair of conflicts, I was able to get up to 15 influence and spending 18.  I'll drop one planet next turn and then focus on guiding the Humans up to 15 influence too (its a learning game after all, and I'm in a spot to just sit back and build supporting cast and let the others fight it out).  G'Kar will just play power broker for now.  I did look at Londo's deck and discard Prime Minister Mollari (evil, I know), but what good G'Kar can pass on keeping Londo in his place?

Things learned:  When it happens, Legacy decks can get OP... I've got 5 Techno-mages in play (G'Kar is one now).  My Narn deck is too thick, I can't get any good non-Legacy cards in my hand (even with Isabella giving me extra draws)...  I need to make hard choices and cut it down to 70 cards (which I'm not good at doing).  Luckily the Legacy deck is keeping me in the game... I've also got two Portraits of the Past in my deck somewhere... at this rate I might use them both if they come up (lets me recycle my Crusade Pile... hello more Wells of Forever). Also, as said before, I really need to emphasize shuffling decks well to new players.

In other news... I'm still cataloging my 4k extra cards I just acquired (see a couple posts below), but I also got a little something for me.  I don't know how rare this is, but I'm thrilled to have it.

So, while thinking of this, here's a vid in memory of Andreas Katsulas

and this epic tribute too

Upcoming: going to try and get a veterans only game together this Saturday.  I'm going to try my 60-ish card Neroon-Ranger One military deck.  Sounds like a Centauri war deck and a Psi Corps deck will be waiting for me... maybe a Non-Aligned worlds deck and a Shadow deck too

Screening and Turns

  Well, its not that type of screening, but yeah.  Me and the Mrs. are going to start watching our way through all things Babylon 5.  We'll start with the Gathering and then head on through the B5 Series.  I'll try to do one or two of these a week and eventually we'll have the whole thing done.  She's never seen a single episode, so this should be interesting.

Another Day of the Lunch Game

Everyone's hit 10+ influence... right now the playing field looks like this:

Starting on the top left and moving clock wise:  

Gambler Londo has the King Arthur and Lord Refa in his Inner Circle, no agenda, a Garrison fleet and 10 influence.  There's been a little antagonism (betrayal??) with the Minbari... but other than that he's doing well

After that, Delenn is farming up her Vorlon marks (4) and raisin Vorlon influence (8).  She's (he's) lost a picket fleet to an intrigue attack by the Centauri, but has a good start to building the Grey Council force needed to contend in Diplo/Intrigue conflicts.  He's also at 10 influence

Next is me (G'kar) with 12 influence (I just won Show the Colors) and 14 to apply (Independent Support).  Right now I've got Defense in Depth in play, along with Elizabeth Trent in my Inner Circle and Galen as a supporting Character (I'm running a 25 card Legacy side deck).  For security I've got a Utility Fleet and Galen's ship,,, but that military looks pretty weak compared to the final member

Last is Sheridan with 11 influence, but also Build Infrastructure, 17 military (Fleet of the Line and Second Battle Fleet), and Franklin in his Inner Circle.  He also has a Trade Pact with the Minbari... so he's the big beat stick right now.

All tensions are as starting and all unrest is one, except Centauri (which is two, thanks Refa).

It's still a learning game, but the beauty of B5 is that getting the fundamentals down goes very quickly.  Both of the new players have made some minor mistakes, but that's the nature of the game...